Including me, I know like 4 or 5 people to would want em. Hell, any kind of soap shoe would satisfy them.

Haha, that's true

Those hooligans.

what do we want... A-SIDES, and when do we want them?... NOW

Now we're talking.

I need to "become a fan" of that facebook page pronto.

BTW, anything going on with our master plan to appeal HSL? Renny basically told me not to, but I still want to make that phone call!

Double BTW: I totally forgot in the heat of the Broadside auction, but I talked with a financial advisor who's a friend of the family recently, about what might be an effective strategy for negotiations. He gave me a lot of suggestions about info we would want to dig up before we entered into serious talks, but it's a lot of info, so I don't know whether I should post all of it. Anyone up for a long paragraph of technical stuff?

Sure, I don't mind. Keep in mind, it's probably not possible to find out most of this stuff, but here's what he told me would give us a good handle on understanding HSL's corporate situation (which would give us a real leg-up in negotiations):

1) It's absolutely essential that we know the fate of the original moulds and production equipment. It's probably safe to assume that HSL still has the moulds for Expresses, Chaos/Nitro, Scam, and T-Bone (since they were the ones who designed and produced those shoes), but the fate of the Broadside/A-Side moulds and equipment is less clear. IF HSL still had the moulds and owned all the machinery necessary to produce Broadsides/A-Sides, it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive to dust off the old moulds and start a new run. However, as often happens with mergers and acquisitions, it's possible that HSL only bought the SOAP name and patents, and the moulds/equip is now lost to the blue mists of time. If THAT's the case, then it's a whole different ballgame.

2) (This involves some economic theory) If I accurately remember what I was told, any economic venture (such as a new run of SOAPs, for instance) has a high initial cost, which must be amortized before the venture can turn a profit. In the case of production and assembly lines, there is a "magic number" of shoes that would have to be produced and sold before the costs are amortized. However, every shoe sold after the "magic number" has been reached is highly profitable. So, it would give us a real advantage in negotiations if we could find out what the "magic number" would be in the case of a new production run--that would give us a sense of how many shoes they would need to sell, and how close we come, as a community, to meeting that number.

3) It is also equally important to know what HSL's liability situation is. First, we'd need to find out just what type of corporation HSL is; the situation changes depending on whether it's a joint-stock corporation or a limited liability corporation (LLC) or whatever. Even though HSL produces a much-derided product that injures hundreds of kids each year, let's be realistic: SOAPs are MUCH more dangerous, and my advisor friend thinks that they might be hesitant because their asses aren't covered in case of a huge lawsuit. So it'd be good to know exactly how liable they are, to what extent is the individual liable, and also if they can get any insurance against such lawsuits. The economy has changed radically since 2003, and it's quite possible that liability insurance has become prohibitively expensive in the 7 years that have elapsed, and no corporation with a brain is going to produce a dangerous item without some sort of liability coverage.

That's what I remember of our conversation. Sorry if it's too dense. But if anyone knows anything about the moulds, the economics, or the current legal situation with HSL, tell me. If we could have answers to all those questions, we'd be in a very strong position.

Ok, that's great. The moulds exist, that much is a great plus. I looked up their stock and financial statements, but-not gonna lie-it confuses me, so I'll see if my financial advisor friend can interpret anything based on it. It looks like they're a simple publicly traded company with a ~$2 stock on the NASDAQ, which I'm inclined to think is worse for our position, because even despite the low price, it implies a higher degree of accountability to the investor (always a hiccough when trying to push a new product).

I understand that *people* are aware of the risks of soaping, but, stepping into HSL's liability mentality, I'd still see a high danger of legal action. Despite all the disclaimers, it's still far to easy to make the case that the company had a duty, that duty was breached, and a harm resulted (not saying any of US would ever think of a soaping accident as anything other than our own darn fault, just trying to think like a corporate suit). But...I mean, worst case scenario: someone manages to pull a class action suit for, like, a rash of deaths or paralyses (unfortunately, not an entirely impossible situation, given who HSL markets to primarily), and win a huge settlement. HSL is screwed if that happens--not to the same extent as if it was a private corporation and each member was jointly and severally liable, but still, it would likely drive them into bankruptcy, if not out of business altogether. Just saying, there's that to consider when thinking our strategy through.

What we still need, though, is a profitability model of some kind. Anyone know anything about the initial cost of starting a production run of this kind, or where information of that type might be found? I think the profitability argument would be our strongest one, IF, and ONLY IF we could make it work--guaranteeing anyone a profit is a staunch motivator, and we would provide the advertising.

Lol, wall of text makes my head spin. I understand it though. But for the whole injury coverage thing, isn't that why those warning stickers put on the plates? Or am I missing something.

You bet.

Brad and I are still here, I think. I know I can't leave this site alone for more than a day at a time without feeling withdrawal symptoms.

But let's not let this die out, folks. Keep up the interest in A-Sides, and let's keep trying to dig up some of this info! We have a chance to win this, but it has to be done soon and we have to have a strong case.

What Kook said.

Do it up.

@Revengasaur: Thanks, dude! Means a lot to me, at least. Just remember, you rock too and I sure hear you about life being hectic.

@Travis: Any luck with that HSL call? Keep us posted!

I would love soap shoes just as much as all of you would. But I remember the last time this same exact thing happened. We have already tried once to get them in production again, and after everyone who wanted them got the shoes it all just kind of died. We got them to start remaking the Expresses, but that was with way more people than what we have now. I don't think we have a shot unless someone here has a lot of money to put into this. And HSL is a corporation they wont listen to just us, we need businesses willing to put soaps in their stores as well as people we know who want them. We need commercials on major television networks and billboards in a bunch of cities. We need to centralize the demand to a different location than just this forum, possibly a new website focused only on the rebirth of Soap Shoes. If we could get Advertisements and lead them all back to one place like a website, we would then have the numbers to tell us and HSL if Soaps would make it again. But we wont be able to do anything without money or somebody who has money to invest with.

A corporation cares only about revenue. They pretend to care for the consumers to only save their own asses. If this is going to happen we all need to work together as a team, but i honestly do not believe this will happen without the money to put into it.

That's sorta the purpose of this thread, to try and got more people into soaping. I agree with you though. It's gonna be though. I'm just really curious as to what they said to Travis.

We we cant act off of what has already been found. We have to start fresh and do it all our selves ya know what I'm saying? we just need people who are down to do what ever is necessary but none of this will be done with out spending some money.

That's too bad. I'm just happy someones calling them.

Well do what you guys wanna do to get it started, Just let me know what needs to be done. I cant help start this by calling and talking to the people without anything to back up what we want.

bump